Question:
Don't ya kinda feel bad for Pluto?
2BaD4u
2006-08-25 22:33:27 UTC
It has been a Planet since the 1930's and now we just kick it to the curb.If you were a Planet and that happened to you, how would you feel? Assuming of course, that Planets had feelings. I say leave the damn thing alone, it's not hurting anything by being called a Planet.There are bigger things to be concerned with on THIS PLANET.
26 answers:
ksteve
2006-08-25 22:40:01 UTC
I totally agree with you. Although in an ideal world I would prefer an 8-planet Solar System, Pluto has been part of the family for so long (all my life) that it seems cruel to kick it out in the cold now.



I know what people are saying about there being bigger plutons out there, but that is beside the point. Pluto has been family, and you don't do that to family.
dave_eee
2006-08-26 06:00:44 UTC
...sigh...



Pluto is no less of an object. The DEFINITION of the word "planet" has changed. If the International Astronomical Union decided to change the definition of "planet" to "a baked dessert of german origin made with stewed apple and pastry" then pluto would also not be a planet anymore. But would it change anything at all about pluto? No. Pluto is still there, its just a different type of thing. If anything, it is now more special, being the first "dwarf planet" in our solar system.



Oh, and GreyGoul had an excellent point, but Agent C's was even better.



have a nice day.
go2_planet
2006-08-26 06:07:10 UTC
I agree that there are more immediate things to tackle in this world. However, I kind of feel sad that Pluto's status has been relegated. Hypothetically, what if earth was found to be too small and not a planet?



In any case, like-minded individual sign the petition against this decision at http://pleasesavepluto.org/
packermama
2006-08-26 05:41:09 UTC
Poor guy. I suppose now we should call it "the spherical mass formerly known as the planet Pluto"?



I think it's just a way to make the education system spend more money on new books and wall charts. Not to mention, make every kid's science project for the last 70 years wrong.
2006-08-26 05:59:34 UTC
G'day Lifeisfunstuff,



Thank you for your question.



Yes it sucks to be be Pluto right now. It was finally discovered in 1930 and admitted to the big boys club. It has now been relegated to the minor leagues as a dwarf planet. (The dwarf planets would be a great name for a band but I digress).



From its discovery in 1930 until 2006, Pluto was considered the ninth planet of the solar system by the International Astronomical Union (IAU). After recent discoveries of other trans-Neptunian objects, most notably 2003 UB313, which is larger than Pluto, the IAU redefined the term 'planet'; this resulted in Pluto being reclassified as a dwarf planet. Pluto can take some consolation in being the prototype of a yet-to-be-named family of trans-Neptunian objects.



The 2006 redefinition of planet is a a body that has "cleared the neighborhood" around its orbit. A full definition may be found below.



Since the discovery of Pluto in 1930, astronomers had considered the solar system to contain nine planets, and assorted other bodies. The discovery, over recent years, that there are at least three (Quaoar, Sedna and 2003 UB313), and probably more, bodies which orbit the sun in a planet-like manner and which are comparable to Pluto in size, led to a situation where either the minor bodies would be added the list of officially recognized planets, or older ones would need to be removed, in order to ensure consistency of definition (as well as to address concerns about the classification of planets in other solar systems). In 2006, the matter came to a head with the need to categorize and name the recently-discovered trans-plutonic object 2003 UB313.



Debate within the IAU led to suggested proposals to redefine the term "planet" so as to include other objects beyond the traditional nine planets which have historically been considered part of the solar system. The proposal is denoted as Resolutions 5A, 5B, 6A and 6B for GA-XXVI. Members of the IAU voted on the proposal on August 24, 2006 in Prague, Czech Republic, with the vote removing Pluto's status as a planet and reclassifying it as a dwarf planet. Of course, the IAU decision does not change Pluto's physical characteristics; Pluto has been small, distant, eccentric in orbit, and in close quarters with other spatial bodies throughout human history.



In its original form, the redefinition would have recognized three new planets: Ceres, Charon, and 2003 UB313, along with Pluto, as planets. It was presumed that, after more observation and discussion, astronomers would accept more objects in the solar system as meeting the new definition. On August 22, however, the original redefinition (which recognized twelve solar system planets, including Pluto), was dealt fatal blows in two open IAU meetings. Jay Pasachoff of Williams College, who attended both meetings, was quoted as saying, "I think that today can go down as 'the day we lost Pluto' ".



The final definition, as passed on 24 August 2006 [30][31], is:



2006 redefinition of planet

The IAU...resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:



(1) A "planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.



(2) A "dwarf planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape [2], (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.



(3) All other objects except satellites orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies".



Footnotes:



[1] The eight planets are: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.

[2] An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either "dwarf planet" and other categories.

These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies.



The IAU further resolves:



Pluto is a "dwarf planet" by the above definition and is recognized as the prototype of a new category of trans-Neptunian objects.



I have attached some sources for your reference



Regards
laa dee da
2006-08-26 05:39:05 UTC
yeah! i saw it on the news yesterday. but did you also know that there are also 3 other bodies past pluto that were going to be called planets and named "plutons"? thats what they said. they said that there is no real definition for "planet" sso they consider pluto a dwarf planet since it is so small compared to the rest.

so really there is supposed to be up to 12 planets in our solar system and now since pluto is gone all the textbooks and books in the world are going to need to be changed! =p





poor poor pluto and fellow plutons .......... lol
GreyGoul
2006-08-26 05:37:53 UTC
You can't feel bad, Pluto was not called a planet for thousands of years. So we called it a planet for 70, then changed our minds. So? Whats 70 out of thousands? It was probably hurt we changed its name! Who are we to come in and say, "Hey, now your Pluto!"
Brooke R
2006-08-26 05:40:14 UTC
Poor Pluto!
fallingstar
2006-08-26 05:47:04 UTC
Yeah poor thing!! Plus it was one of the few I actually remembered in school!! (thanks Mr. Disney!) I say let it stay a planet--now it's downgraded--just a wee dwarf planet (I'm wondering how P.C. that is), no longer in the big line up I had to memorize (told 'em there was no point in that!!)
wm_omnibus
2006-08-26 06:03:10 UTC
It takes almost 250 years for Pluto to orbit the Sun once. We've only known about it at all for, what, a third of its orbit...



Sometimes, maybe, we get a little too caught up in our own drama.
jaymay2008
2006-08-26 07:54:38 UTC
first of all...PLUTO DOES NOT GIVE A **** what those assholes at the International Astronomical Union call it. You can call it "****** planet" for all i care. Those assholes at the IAU just want MORE MONEY...this is all about ******* money and the IAU and NASA want more $...that's it. Do you realize how many books will have to RE-PUBLISHED = more ******* money...Bush supports those assholes...why? because he is the biggest asshole of them all.



hope that helps
Nicky
2006-08-26 05:47:13 UTC
Don't worry, it is still at an intermediate stage. It is still not finalised yet. The last I heard was that there will be an appeal and the resolutiuon will be shot down.



Anyway Mickey is taking that within his stride.
2006-08-26 05:46:20 UTC
yeah me too. And now teachers have to figure out some other nifty saying without the letter "P" before school starts....
arsenal_chun17
2006-08-26 07:46:31 UTC
Sad... I cried for Pluto T.T
elazrath
2006-08-26 05:40:08 UTC
im sure pluto's ok with it.. well .. you never know though ... one day we'll look up into the sky and see pluto bearing down on us and then he'd crush us into dust.. then we'd know how pluto felt ahah
Classy Granny
2006-08-26 05:46:05 UTC
I couldn't agree more. To much time and money is spend on this stuff.
IthinkFramptonisstillahottie
2006-08-26 06:08:55 UTC
It was sad when Mickey sent him to the pound.
sueflower
2006-08-26 05:36:24 UTC
Yes...couldn't we let it slide under some grandfather clause or something?
Agent C
2006-08-26 05:40:25 UTC
.











>> .. wow! .. only the 49th Question (or statement) about Pluto.









.



.. when you type your answer .. similar questions will appear in the box below. Try reading it.



.
dULz
2006-08-26 05:39:05 UTC
yeah... i used to memorize the nine planets... sentimentalist me.
DeAd DiScO
2006-08-26 05:36:55 UTC
You're right. Keep him. He never hurt anyone.
2006-08-26 05:41:31 UTC
Mickeys going to be pissed!
KingRichard
2006-08-26 05:39:15 UTC
not really, but i do kinda feel bad for earth....cuz we are destroying it
SweetNurse
2006-08-26 05:36:32 UTC
No, he still has GOOFY & Mickey.
brucebirchall
2006-08-26 09:03:15 UTC
As you rightly say it's very anthropomorphic of us to feel bad about having blackballed an old friend and kicked him out of the club we both belong to, but planets don't have feelings. If they did, Pluto would probably feel much the same as Ceres, Pallas Juno and Vesta felt when they were kicked out of the planetary club after 50 years in it, in similar circumstances in the mid-19th Century,



It happens!



Pluto hasn't gone anywhere, it just got reclassified as a dwarf planet along with Ceres Charon, Xena and a dozen others, mostly Trans-Neptunian Objects like Charon and Xena, but three of them are, like Ceres, asteroids lying between Mars and Jupiter.



There is understandable dismay at Pluto being demoted in status but people need to understand the reasons the IAU had to grapple with definitions and categories at this time,:



(1) in 1930 we knew of just one body lying beyond the orbit of Neptune. Now we know of more than 1000



(2) we are discovering asteroids at a rate of 5000 a month



(3) we now know of 200+ extra-solar planets orbiting 170+ other stars, some of which we now know to have asteroid belts



It is conceivable the IAU may create more categories in the future in the light of more discoveries, The moment we find an extra-Solar System planet with extra-terrestrial life on it, for example, I would expect Habitable Zone Planet to be a new category and only Earth and Mars to be in it.



We already have the distinction between terrestrial planet (the inner 4 planets) and gas giant (the outer 4 planets) and are assessing new extra-Solar-System planets in the light of that distinction and a new category name for the informally-named "hot Jupiters" (i.e. large planets orbiting near to their star at less than 1 AU distance) of which we know several, may not be far away,



As science expands its knowledge, it needs more concepts and categories with which to describe that knowledge, That is perfectly normal and should neither surprise nor alarm us,



Creating new categories and reclassifying known objects in the light of them has happened before: in the 19th Century when the number of planets was pruned from 11 to 7 out of concern that being consistent and admitting other, newly discovered bodies to the planetary club that were similar to the ones they chose to kick out instead would have meant the number of planets could rapidly start to escalate and mushroom out of control,



To understand what is going on now, it helps to understand what went on then,



The number of bodies in the Solar System known to astronomers has been burgeoning for a long time now, but the general public seems unaware of this, given the way people blithely talk of Ceres (discovered 1801) Charon (discovered 1978) and Xena (discovered 2003) having "just been discovered", And given how one Yahoo answerer recently confidently asserted that Ceres, Charon and Xena were all "newly formed"!



(I wish people wouldn't make up astronomical theory on the hoof like that! The gullible will only go and repeat such Malapropisms as gospel truth!) (Gossip-tell truth would be a more apt description,)



There was a similar definitions crisis in the early 19th century and again in the mid-19th Century as the number of known objects in the Solar System started to grow and grow,



By 1807 the 8 Solar System bodies known to classical astronomy (the Sun, the Earth, our Moon and the 5 classical planets known from antiquity, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) (1 star, 6 planets, 1 moon) had grown to 26. Uranus was found in 1781 making 7 planets. There were 4 Jovian moons, 7 Saturnine moons and 2 Uranian moons, 14 in all



And then there was the discovery of the first four asteroids. These were 1 Ceres on January 1, 1801, 2 Pallas on March 28, 1802, 3 Juno on September 1, 1804, and 4 Vesta on March 29, 1807,



What were astronomers to call these new objects? They weren't moons as they rotated around the Sun, so they had to be planets, didn't they? As there was, initially, no other category but moons or planets to put them in.



After 2 Pallas was discovered though, Sir William Herschel (the discoverer of Uranus) coined the term "asteroid" meaning "star-like"), in 1802.



But Ceres was meantime assigned a planetary symbol, and remained listed as a planet in astronomy books and tables (along with 2 Pallas, 3 Juno and 4 Vesta) for about half a century until further asteroids were discovered.



So we now had 1 star, 11 planets and 14 Moons, the beginnings of a distinction between major and minor planets and a sense of unease as to what we would do if more asteroids were discovered as the first four were all disappointingly small in size, so did they really belong in the planetary club? (Similar doubts were expressed about Pluto, right from the outset in 1930,)



38 years pass and then in 1845 the asteroid 5 Astraea is discovered and on September 23, 1846 the planet Neptune and a mere 17 days later on October 10, 1846, Neptune's moon, Triton. (We now have 1 star, 12 Planets 15 Moons and 1 non-planetary Asteroid.)



The pace of discovery then starts to really hot up. Four more asteroids in nine months: 6 Hebe on July 1, 1847, 7 Iris on August 13, 1847, 8 Flora on October 18, 1847, and 9 Metis April 25, 1848



Then on September 16, 1848 an 8th moon of Saturn called Hyperion is discovered,



Plus a further 6 asteroids are found in just over two years: 10 Hygiea on April 12, 1849, 11 Parthenope on May 11, 1850, 12 Victoria on September 13, 1850, 13 Egeria on November 2, 1850, 14 Irene on May 19, 1851 and 15 Eunomia on July 29, 1851.



And on October 24, 1851 a 3rd and a 4th moon of Uranus: called Ariel and Umbriel were discovered.



So now we had 42 objects: 1 star 12 planets 18 moons and 11 asteroids. If the latest asteroids were all to be regarded as planets, making a total of 23 planets (and 10 Hygiea was bigger than 3 Juno, just like Xena is bigger than Pluto), it was likely to start getting silly (by 1868 the number of asteroids was to rise to 107 and Victorian schoolchildren would have needed a massive 115-word mnemonic to remember all the names).



The unease grew to a crisis, a redefinition was clearly necessary and an inevitable decision was taken to regard all 15 asteroids as a separate category from planets and Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta were kicked out of the planetary club, just like Pluto has been kicked out now.



There are some clear parallels between the situation in the 1850s and the situation now, Four under-sized runts had obtained planetary status, with seemingly more to follow as they were discovered, creating an overwhelming feeling among astronomers that the currency would be devalued if all these further objects were to then be automatically awarded planetary status. So they cried Whoa! And called a halt. And created a new category, Just like the IAU has now done,



SO HOW MANY OBJECTS HAVE WE GOT IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM NOW?



Stars: 1



Planets: 8



Moons: over 80 known moons of the dwarf planets, asteroids and other small solar system bodies.



(The asteroid 87 Sylvia has 2 moons for example as does the Kuiper Belt Object KBO 2003 EL61.)



AND another 162 moons orbiting around planets: Mercury has none, Venus has none, Earth has 1, Mars has 2, Jupiter has 63, Saturn has 56, Uranus has 27, Neptune has 13.



Kuiper Belt Objects: over 800 (all discovered since 1992).



Trans-Neptunian Objects: over 1000 (includes the 800+ KBOs) i,e, there are 200+ in the Scattered Disk and the Oort Cloud.



Asteroids: Hundreds of thousands of asteroids have been discovered within the solar system and the present rate of discovery is about 5000 per month. As of July 23, 2006, from a total of 338,186 registered minor planets, 134,339 have orbits known well enough to be given permanent official numbers. Of these, 13,242 have official names.



Current estimates put the total number of asteroids above 1 km in diameter in the solar system to be between 1.1 and 1.9 million



So you can see



(a) why some definitions are needed and why reclassification is necessary



(b) how totally unaware of the state of scientific knowledge the general public is and how uninformed people are when they get excited at tales of "3 new planets being discovered" and wonder if there might perhaps be more where those came from,



Finally, these issues need to be seen in the context of the 205 extra-solar planets we now know to exist and the asteroid belts that have now been detected in some of those stellar systems,



Consistency being a desirable thing to achieve in science, whatever definitions and categories the IAU now adopt, they need to be applicable to every star with other objects in orbit around it, throughout the entire universe, That is the context in which Pluto's status is now being discussed,
happy_84 k
2006-08-26 06:22:40 UTC
so sad...


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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