Scientific question about God?

Question

Scientific question about God?

Answer 1

"...Basically I was thinking about the big bang and how in the beginning there was one thing (i think it was an atom and please correct me if i'm wrong) and this atom exploded and it created everything that is today..."



What, if any "thing" existed before the Big Bang is totally unknown and probably unknowable. At the instant of the Big Bang, which we are forced to assume occurred within nothingness, there was nothing but space-time and energy. Every thing else came later.



I'm not your basic religious fundamentalist. I have a lot of trouble with putting faith in a book written some 2,000 years ago by several different authors who, in countless cases, disagreed with each other.



At the same time, though, I personally can't escape the requirement that there exists -- or did exist -- a First Cause.



Science has been struggling long and hard with anwering your question and so far has come up with little more than theory. I try to imagine the time when science will be able to prove one or more of these theories with some etched-in-stone, conclusive physical evidence. Let's say that it's discovered that A + B - Y = The Universe.

All well and good, but we'd still be left with the same question -- how did it become possible that A + B - Y = The Universe? For that matter how did A, B and Y first come into existence?



Some scientists argue that the creation of our universe was just a kind of accident. That, if true, seems to finally get rid of a First Cause, but how was it possible for such an accident to occur in the first place.



Then we hear about notions that our universe is but one that's somehow sprung from some Mother Universe, and that there are an infinity of other universes. Once again, how did that Mother Universe come into existence without a First Cause.



It seems obvious to me that no matter how the universe formed we'll never get away from that First Cause, the supreme entity that started it all.

Answer 2

The Big Bang theory simply states that the universe is expanding, therefore, long ago, it must have been much smaller. If we follow the logic to the end, then presumably the universe began as a super-dense point containing all the mass and energy that exists today (not exactly an atom!).



Is it possible some outside force caused the Big Bang? Absolutely! Why did the Big Bang occur? What, if anything, came before? Why was there more matter than antimatter? These are complete mysteries to us.



And yet I would hesitate to bring gods into the mix. They add unnecessary complexity to a problem which is complex enough already.



To illustrate, we start with the question "where did the universe come from?". The (monotheistic) religious answer is, of course, "God created the universe". But that leaves us no better off than we were before, because the existence of God is the same mystery, only rephrased!



So, we must then ask, "what created God?". Two possible answers present themselves:

1) God has always existed

2) God spontaneously came into existence



If we say that God has always existed, why not skip a step, and simply say the universe has always existed? The complexity is reduced.



If we say that God spontaneously came into existence, why not skip a step and simply say the universe spontaneously came into existence? The complexity is again reduced.



Either way, postulating the existence of God does not give a useful answer. It just adds unnecessary additional steps, without really addressing the fundamental mystery.

Answer 3

Science once taught that the earth was flat - now how did scientists know that? They taught it for centuries as a known irrefutable fact, but we know different now! Where was their proof? How did they experiment and come to that conclusion? Scientists today are full of their pet theories and dismiss whatever does not suit. How much thrown-away information may have progressed humanity becuase the data did not fit someone's theory? Strangely, one of the Psalms speaks of the earth as being a circle - how could that be known 1000 BC? It took almost another 3000 years before scientists 'accepted' that the Earth was round. The genome has baffled scientists for years, yet they admit its complexity and revelations that by simply moving one small part of it they can change or create something. Did they creat this or just discover it? In my own field of medicine I have seen how pet theories have changed back and forth over the past 30 years. Eat this, and eath that, for it is good for your health, only for 10 years later to discover that it is bad for your health. Scientists said that Thalidomide was a good drug and look at what it did to young babies. What happened to the Big Bang theory? Now scientists admit it is wrong! The expanding universe? How do they prove it? Can they examine the whole universe? Why are some stars moving away from others, yet some galaxies seem to be collapsing? How can we have expansion and contraction at the same time? Science promotes a theory it can neither prove or disprove, yet secular scientists have admitted that from their observations and studies within their respective fields that there must be an intelligent being behind the creation of the known universe. Hey, hold on there! We believe as a fact whatever theory they promote but if these same people say there must be a God then it is dismissed. Which rules are you going by? You'll choose what information you will accept as fact depending on the conclusion you want to form beforehand! Now that's being scientific and objective! Some folks need to prove scientifically that there is no God instead of just making wild statements. You can't see air but you breath it! You can't see light but you see it reflecting of things to give what we call light. You claim to see darkness but can you touch it? Science states that the absence of light is darkness, so prove it scientifically. God put the laws of physics and thermodynamics in motion. A human sperm and human egg produces a human being because of the intricate information contained in the genetic code. How was that code formed? By accident? It would be easier to accept the fact that a monkey could takes pieces at random in a junkyard and make a Jumbo jet ready to fly - and a scientist made that staement a long time ago. God is scientific and your existence is evidence of that. Just because the Bible is not full of mathematical equations and chemical formulae does not mean that God is not scientific. Why would God put such things into the Bible? Would they have been understood 2000-3000 years ago? Are they understood now? To answer your question fully would take such a long time and much reading, but the evidence is there, if you will accept it, and much is supplied by non-Christians.

Answer 4

First of all, Big Bang is still a theory, so it might raise some doubts if we are to use a mere theory as a basis for determining the origin of everything. However, I'd love to share my views about this thing, since I believe that any theory will end up to the same conclusion.



Big Bang, according to Lemaitre, begins with a superheated sphere of energy that later on explodes, which is quite plausible, as depicted with the irregular scattering of galaxies and stars. However, one might argue that the probabilities of a cluster of energy will form a ball of superheated energy is very low, what with the unquantifiable, abstract energy roaming the four infinite corners of the universe. I believe that the universe had a huge singularity before the origin of everything, otherwise, there wouldn't have been enough gravitational force to have a massive ball explode that will start everything, but that's not the point.



Even with the supposed strong gravitational force of the universe's singularity, this is infinity we're talking about, which uses the "expanding universe theory" which is more plausible for me. Thus, we can say that the probability of energy gathering together is 1/∞, making it so unlikely that even if it will form on its own accord, the duration before everything will form would raise very exponentially.



However, despite the 1/∞ chance of having a random superheated sphere in some part of the universe, it still happened, and in a surprisingly short duration of about 17 billion years. No matter how humanity denies about this, this is where the immaterial comes in.



The probabilities involving infinitesimals are highly impossible, and yet it happened. Like what our asker said, what if the factor who was behind the extravagant feat of the formation of everything despite of 1/∞ probability is God? A celestial and a supernatural being?



First, a good number of scholars have concluded that the idea of God making the universe is absurd. However, one might argue that the Bible only applies to the Earth, and is defied at a macro scale. What if God meant this to happen that way, knowing humanity back then doesn't have the knowledge capable of scouring the universe?



Another thing is that taking the Bible's words literally can really make someone confused. What if God intended this to happen, to conceal the truth until human is capable of understanding it? The creation of light and dark, and the explosion of the superheated sphere exploding into the universe, resulting to mingled bright stars and darkness, they're relatively connected.



With how the Bible depicts how God makes different things, He might even be behind the pressure, temperature, and the singularity itself. Another thing is that if we're to consider metaphysics, we can ask this to ourselves: what if God created the universe through the Big Bang?



Three of God's descriptions include omnipresence, together with omniscience and omnipotence, so one might argue that God is ultimately everywhere and not disappearing at all, which raises a possibility that God is the energy; the omnipresent thing in science. If this is the case, there's a chance that God created the universe through the Big Bang, or through Himself.



These facts might also explain how this particular Earth came into existence, what with all the other substances and structures that came into being, although in a much smaller scale, since the numbers concerning this are finite. Thus, even if we get the gist of the theory of everything, this would take a whole lot of information to clarify every aspect of it, especially the mind-boggling enigma of infinitesimals.



While I entertain the continuity of human science, I believe that no matter how we research, unless we consider the other side, be more open-minded and think outside the box of concrete science, it would take centuries for us to figure it out, or worse, never figure it out at all.

Answer 5

I can't answer all of the questions you've typed up, but I believe I can point you in the right direction.

First: the Big Bang is a theory, just like everything we "know" about light. Sometimes it acts like a wave, sometimes it acts like a particle. Nothing is set in iron.

Second: nearly everything tries to get in equilibrium, it's a rule of nature. Atoms want 8 valence electrons and both sides of the equation you're balancing need to have the same amount of elements on both sides. Your own body tries to do this. It's because when things happen, there is a reaction, and other reactions to that. The reactions stop when things are balanced.



What you seem to want is to reconcile your religion with science - which is entirely doable. The thing you have to accept is that most science isn't rockhard, and most religion is outdated - I don't mean the beliefs necessarily, but the Bible wasn't written by God/dess, it was written by men, and then translated and revised over and over again. Make your own way.



PS: Why isn't this listed under 'religion'?

Answer 6

I would just like to add the following remark to the excellent answers that there have been so far:



The bb theory has only been around for less than a century. It only really gained evidence to support it around 1926 when Edwin Hubble observed the fact that red shifts of galaxies increase the dimmer and smaller the image of the galaxy (and so presumably the more distant they are).



This is a very short time for such an ambitious theory and we still don't know the exact nature of the universe that it is trying to describe. And certainly we know nothing yet about what lies outside our thus-far observed universe. Therefore we should be wary of accepting bb as Gospel, and should not allow ourselves to fall into the trap of using it as definitive proof that some conjecture or cherished belief is either true or false.



Would you call the finish of a race just after the horses have left the barrier? No, so why would you call the origin of the universe when the bb theory has so far left to run?



Cheers!

Answer 7

It was not an atom. Atoms didn't start to form until after gravity split off from the other four fundamental forces at 10^-34 seconds AFTER the big bang and the plasma cooled enough for protons and neutrons to start forming. More cooling had to take place before neutral atoms could form.



The laws of physics as we know them in this universe operate just fine with or without God. For me, God is physics and physics is God. You are another one looking for a First Cause. I'm not one of those people. I realize God is created by man to explain the unknown, the strange, the unexplainable, and the strange tribes who are infringing on your tribes hunting range. A super entity MAY or MAY NOT exist. Either way, the laws of physics are the most efficient and elegant way to set in motion the evolution of a universe.

Answer 8

There is no answer of where the initial energy prior to the Big Bang came from.

If you read about M-theory, it states that our current universe and the Big Bang were just the result of a collision of 2 membranes within the multiverse. Where that multiverse came from is debated.



But if you say that it came from God, then all that does is displace causality one step. If God did it, then where did God come from, what was before God?



And you can also think of it in reverse - the universe was created by the Big Bang (or M-theory or string theory or whatever, we may never know) and we CALL it God. Perhaps what we call God is the Big Bang(rather than what we call the Big Bang was God).

Answer 9

Energy was there at the beginning of our universe, not atoms. As the energy was radiating outward in all directions after the big bang, it eventually "condensed" into matter, much like water droplets will condense out of the water vapor in a cloud.



EDIT: Your question is one that Theoretical Physicists and other physicists all over the planet are working to figure out.



If one can answer your question, then they are the smartest person that ever lived.



Read up on String Theory and General Relativity for more on this subject.

Answer 10

Your question is pretty well formulated I think, but it basically comes back to a formulation of the "god of the gaps" argument. It runs something like "Event X happened. We cannot find an explanation for X. Therefore X was caused by God." For centuries theologians have been searching for proofs of god in inexplicable things. As science has improved, explanations for lots of these things have been found. The theologians have then moved onto the next unexplained thing, the current 'gap' in the scientific understanding. Hence the god of the gaps.



Your second problem, as has already been mentioned, is the infininte regress involved in invoking god as a original force. If god Caused the universe, then something must have Caused god. it doesn't simplify things, you just shift all the questions about the uncaused event from the big bang onto god,without getting any answers.



What happened at the big bang? Well we just don't know. think of all the energy in the universe. Very shortly after the big bang all this enegy was contained within a very small volume. The Energy Density was way higher than we can recreate to test out any theories. The closest we get is in accelerators like the LHC at CERN. Modern theories, like quantum theory and the standard model, are known as theories not bescause they are unproved, but because in all likelyhood they will turn out to be simplifications or approximations to a more complicated overlying set of laws. Newtonian Mechanics works just fine, and gives you all the right answers, as long as nothings travelling near the speed of light. When you get things travelling at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light the approximation starts to break down , and we need relativity to make predictions. Same with current physical theories. They work just fine for the world we see around us. But as we get towards the energy densities of the big bang the approximations start to break down, and we need new, as yet undiscovered science to figure out what is happening. Working these things out is the point of these particle accelerators.



Where did the laws of nature come from? Well, that's also a question phycisists have been working on for a long time. One current suggestion is that new universes are created regularly in the multiverse with slightly differing physical laws. Then a sort of 'survival of the fittest' takes over where some universes become unstable very quickly and go out of existence, where as some have physical laws that allow them to persist. We have to be living in a universe that allows things to persist, otherwise we wouldn't be here to see it, but that doesn't mean that all universes have to follow the same laws as ours.



And finally, the Earth is certainly not in a state of equllibrium. It's in a constant state of flux. The temperature is always going up and down, (it was a lot hotter when the dinosaurs were around, and there have been ice ages before and after) plate tectonics, volcanos, subductions zones and stuff like that constantly recycle the surface. Deserts come and go. Forests and mountains come and go. It's just that these things take place on geological timescales. We, as short lived humans, only get a snapshot of the process, which gives the illusion of balance.



Sorry if that was a bit long winded, but I think I've made most of the points I wanted to........

Answer 11

I was under the impression that according to the Bible, the world was 6000 years old and some guy, who we later learn we were all made to look like, created 1) light 2) oceans 3) the heavens 4) uh... other stuff?



There is no "god" in the Big Bang.



The people that wrote the Bible had their chance... heck, I would be a solid Christian today if they just said "Oh, and Saturn has rings... you won't find that out until you invent a telescope, but just sayin'..." Now, they need to step aside or at least just talk about "Love thy neighbor" and "The Golden Rule" more and Revelation less. A LOT less.

Answer 12

I find it interesting that when Georges Lemaitre first proposed the Big Bang theory, it was thoroughly dismissed by most astronomers and cosmologists at the time as being "to Creator oriented" for it's implication that there was a "beginning to Time", hence a Creation. By coincidence, Lemaitre was a Roman Catholic priest. That being said, I do believe in the scientific method, and that consequent data discovered over the past century supports the Big Bang theory. As such, the theory is extremely valid. But, since there are no testable hypothesis of events BEFORE the Big Bang, I imagine there is room to say there could have been a Creator. It's as narrow-minded to say that there definitely isn't one as it is to say there definitely is one. But I don't find the two concepts incompatible

Answer 13

If everything had to come from somewhere, then where did God come from?

Answer 14

Hehehehe.

And you don't think we have a collection of trolls and sock puppets around here?

Scientists are the very -first- ones to say, "We don't know. We have no idea at all where it came from or what started its expansion (it was -not- an explosion, just an expansion).

But Science does not go about answering questions with preconceived and dogmatic answers. If it did, we'd still be thinking about diseases as being the wrath of angry spirits. And we certainly wouldn't be living much better than in caves. Many of the theories we have today will probably be discarded over the next 50 years as newer and/or more accurate observational data becomes available. Science is all about 'stepwise refinement' of our understanding of the UNiverse and how it works.



Doug

Answer 15

Take a moment to consider early Christianity. Do your homework here. You WILL find that most religious sects INCLUDING Christians, mamed, tortured, and even killed people who didnt follow their beliefs. Now consider the Bible. It WAS NOT written by God. It was written by a bunch of stone aged, peyote chewing alcoholics who had nothing more to look forward to than working and getting stoned. Now you can either insist on believing these ancient boobs, OR, you might consider updating your beliefs! Religion as it stands today is a hindrance to the betterment of mankind. You will find that most scientists DO believe in some form of all powerful entity. They however are far more educated than man was 2000 years ago. Now you have the choice of going back to church and worshipping as a member who insists on shoving down your Gods throat how HE created, or, you can rise above this buffoonery and maybe consider your God chose evolution as his path to creation! After all, who are YOU to tell the almighty how he created? Evolution slaps you in the face daily! Ever watched a fetus go through its stages to adulthood? This IS evolution at its best! Dreams, imagination, different beliefs and straying from the norm is what has created the world around you. If you choose to listen to a bunch of narrow minded buffoons, Throw your cell phones and cars away, get yourself a clay pot, piss in it, and wash your clothes with it as your close minded forefathers did. You like reaping the benefits of imagination yet you condemn those who create them.

Answer 16

Consider yourself corrected, Zeta.



Just before the Big Bang, all the atoms that are in the Universe now, including all the matter, anti-matter and black matter...everything, were compacted into an infinitely small point. Put that many people in one small space and they're gonna want to get away from each other, too.